Warning: spoilers for the most recent Mad Men episode below.
In the premiere of Mad Men's last run of episodes, "Severance," Ken Cosgrove managed to turn getting fired into a moment of sweet, sweet revenge. After being told that his services would no longer be needed at the SC&P that's now 51-percent owned by McCann Erickson, Ken flipped the script on his now-former bosses by becoming head of advertising for Dow Chemical. "I'm going to be your client," Ken announces to Roger and Pete, barely able to contain his glee. "And I hate to tell you, but I'm very hard to please." In short, it was one of the more delicious workplace eff-yous in recent TV memory.
We at Esquire were so impressed by Ken's moxie that, of course, we just had to get Cosgrove—or rather, Aaron Staton, the actor who plays him—on the line. During our conversation, Staton sheds some light on Ken's career decision-making process as well as his other big moment in this episode: the removal of that eye patch.
ESQUIRE: I want to start with the scene where Ken announces that he'll be working for Dow and, therefore, becoming a client of SC&P. What do you remember about shooting that?
AARON STATON: All of this is just so funny because it's been a year ago now, and I just had a third kid who is one-month-old. So my memory on everything is pretty fuzzy at the moment. I'm sure when I see the episode, things will come flooding back. What do I remember? It was so fun. It really was that. Just sort of a full journey in that episode. We shot that [one] in order—it just so happened to be in order. It's funny because walking into Roger's office, it reminded me in a way—a couple of seasons ago, Roger had an opportunity to put Ken in his place and basically told him, "No more writing. You have to make a decision: it's this or you leave. You're either here or you're not." And Ken said, "Okay, I understand," and he had to give up on his passion. In a weird way, it sort of tied all the way back to that moment for me.
Yeah, for sure.
Getting to walk into his office and say, "Hey. You know what? I'm going to be your boss now. So, sayonara, suckers!"
As a viewer, I love that you made that decision because, presumably, it means I'll get to watch Ken torture Roger and Pete for a couple of episodes. But on a personal level, I thought it would have been better for Ken if he had done what his wife suggested: take the severance and go write.
Yes, I think it probably would have. But Ken is different. I think that life changed Ken and, you know, there were decisions that he made that led to some consequences. But even more than that, there were these outside events that meant Ken could no longer be that guy. I don't know, life no longer is coming easily to Ken and this is the decision to completely abandon that, I think. He's like, "You know what? It is what it is. What's going to make me happy now is to make these guys miserable." And yes, probably the other decision would have made him happy. Yeah. I agree with you. That would have probably made him happier. But this will—I don't know. He has the opportunity to take revenge.
I'm not trying to get you to spoil anything that happens next, but it also occurred to me that if he's not working for Roger anymore, he could still potentially be writing on the side and getting the best of both worlds. I don't know if that's what happens.
Sure. It could. I wouldn't say either way. But I agree that the possibility is certainly there, yeah.
It also was interesting to me that Ken says he's not going to take the severance. As Roger points out, he could have taken it. Why do you think he didn't?
I don't think he wants anything from them. I think he's like, "I don't need it. I don't need you, I don't need this. I'm not beholden to you in any way. I'm not going to be tied to this company." It's a clean break. I guess it's not a break, right? It's a break from that position. It's, "I'm not going to take something from you. You're going to be now taking things from me."
During his conversation with Don, Ken seems to think getting fired was his destiny. But he obviously has a change of heart after he talks to Pete, with whom he's always had this competitive relationship. Was that conversation with Pete the catalyst for Ken changing his mind?
That's absolutely how I took it, too. I think he had made the decision. I think he was going to do what his wife said. I think during that conversation [with Don] in the phone booth, I think he was like, "Wow. Yeah. Everything happens for a reason and this is really so clear to me." And then the history with Pete—I think he just could not bear the thought of letting them get away with this and do this. There's this opportunity, and I think he makes that decision there, in Pete's office. I guess it's not Pete's office—it's Ken's office, but he's with Pete going over everything.
When Pete said, "I have nothing but good things to say about you," as if he will be Ken's reference: that seemed to be the twist of the knife.
I think you're right. And Pete being so gracious. Pete saying, "My life is so hard." That was fun to shoot, too... shooting that scene with Vinnie [Kartheiser], I remember looking across, thinking, "Wow." Because you just didn't know. Here we are at the end and any scene could be the last scene that I'm going to shoot with this actor that I've been working with for the better part of a decade. You just really never knew. Everything always had this tinge of emotion to it. I'm talking about the actor, not the character. And the same thing when I went in and shot the scene with both John [Slattery] and Vincent. I was like, "This could be the last scene!" That's something I remember about shooting that has nothing to do with the story, but it's just the story of working on Mad Men.
You were only getting scripts episode by episode, so you wouldn't have known whether you were in the next one or not?
Right. None of us knew. It was always this: "Well, see you at the table read!" We all knew we'd go to the table read. Whether we had anything to say or not, we would learn once we got the scripts.
Although after your exit in this episode, it seems clear that Ken will probably be chatting with Roger and Pete again.
I don't know. I mean—so as an audience member, when I get the scripts, I'm such a huge fan of the story. When the script gets delivered on my doorstep—or, I should say that in past tense, when it would get delivered to my doorstep, is really the opportunity to be a fan without any ideas of anything. I get to just learn the story, fresh, what's going to happen. So Ken walks in and says, "I'll see you." But in the world of this show, the way this story unfolds, I guess I sort of learned never to take anything at face value. Anything could be goodbye or hello. Something could be the opening of a storyline or it could be the closing of one and only time revealed which one it is. Ken's eye patch for example. You don't know—is that an injury that's going to last an episode? A season? And then here we are and it's now explained. But you know, things don't reveal themselves in any way that you can predict, I feel. So no, I didn't have a guarantee. When I came in and played that scene [with Roger and Pete], I actually felt—and maybe it's just an actor's insecurity—I felt quite the opposite. I was like, "This feels it could be the end of my character, right? Does anybody else—?" And of course no one could say anything. But I felt like it could have been a goodbye.
As an actor, I guess that helps you stay in the moment. You literally can't be looking ahead because you have no idea what's next for your character. Which is how we all live our lives.
Right. So in a way, it makes an actor's job easier because every time you walk out of the door, it could be for the last time, I guess. The world would be pretty depressing if you thought that in life. [Laughs]
You mentioned the eye patch a second ago—in this episode, we see Ken without the patch for the first time and we can see the eye is sewn shut. As I understood it, it's just gone, correct?
It's gone. Yeah, I think it's gone. He lost his eye.
I assume that was just prosthetics or makeup they put over your eye?
Right. They glued it shut with, I'm not sure what sort of glue, but not an uncomfortable type of glue, whatever it was. It was just that one scene. It really felt no different, really, than having the eye patch on. It wasn't terribly uncomfortable or anything. I guess it was a relief to be able to open my eye. But it wasn't a prosthetic. It wasn't like a fake closed eye that they put on there. They just closed my eye and scarred it up with some type of acrylic, or I don't know what it was.
Prior to that episode, were you thinking Ken had his eye and could regain his sight? Were you surprised when you realized it was gone?
To be honest with you, I had no idea what was under that eye patch. It wasn't surprise so much as it is was clarity for me. A pretty big question for my character was answered. And it made sense with, you know, at the start of this season, he's so unhappy and he's so different from seasons past. He's just a different guy, and it completely made sense. He's lost himself. He's lost a part of himself, so he can't be the same. He's going to be different. I can't imagine losing an eye, but I feel like it's also symbolic of this guy's journey, what he's sacrificed. I think he gave up his happiness for the sake of, I'm not sure, ambition? I think he chose ambition, ultimately. He had these very strong principles, and I think they're still there, which is why it's a sacrifice. He still has the same principles but he acts against them, and I think the consequence for that is always, you know, tragedy. That's always the consequence for going against principles.
The script sometimes referenced the fact that Ken's depth perception was off. But as an actor, was the eye patch challenging?
It was. They call cut, and I take it off in between scenes. So that helped. There were definitely some headaches and whatever. It's an odd sort of sensation. Your depth perception is off. There are moments, and I think some of them have made it in to the show—there were genuine depth perception problems. It's just funny: so Ken throws the earring to Joan in the first episode [of season seven], he overshoots and she looks and it bounces off a light or something. That's scripted. And then I turned to walk out and I think I ran into the wall on my way out. Just a little bit, just a little bit. That was genuine. That's sort of how I would conduct myself. That's just how I got around with one eye. Have you ever worn an eye patch? I've only had my eyes dilated.
No, I haven't. But even just covering an eye for any reason is disorienting.
It is. And sort of the color, I don't know, everything would sort of go gray. I'm sure there's some scientific reason why. Your eyes work in tandem to give you the full picture and then when you drop one—yeah, it certainly changes things. When you're talking to two people and they're sitting next to each other, you move your head to change focus because you only have one eye, whereas you would just shift your focus [normally]. If you're looking at two people your head would pretty much stay in the same place and you would just move your eyes. You've got to really move around to see everybody. And that is just funny. I mean, it's not funny. It's not funny for people who don't have an eye. There are many people who have to wear an eye patch and that is in no way funny. But in the world of Mad Men, it's funny. But something I also really like about this episode is that it had been, pretty much until this episode, a source of comedy. And I think once [the eye] gets revealed and we see what it actually is, it's not quite as funny anymore.
It's also been a source of comedy within the office and they haven't been very considerate of what impact it would have had on him.
Right.
Speaking of comedy, Ray Wise is in this episode again as your father-in-law. What is it like working with him? I've read that he's a fun, interesting guy to work with.
Oh yeah, he's a really nice guy. I've been a fan of his and his work, so it was a really cool opportunity for me as an actor to get to work with him. He's been doing this for a long time so it's always a privilege to get to work with somebody who's such a pro and such a nice guy on top of it.
He's known for many things, including Twin Peaks. One of my Esquire colleagues was talking to Matthew Weiner earlier about the impact Twin Peaks had on the more surreal moments on Mad Men. Are you a Twin Peaks fan? Do you see the connection?
Well, I have to admit: I did watch most of the series, but I wasn't fanatical about it. So I don't know how well I could speak to that. But it makes sense to me. Like the LSD trip and some of the wacky episodes—that makes sense.
Your tap dancing was a Twin Peaks moment in my mind.
[Laughs] Oh, yeah. Right! That whole episode, right? That makes complete sense to me.
I don't know how much you read about theories about Mad Men on the Internet...
Not a lot. But I'd love to hear them. So what are they?
Back when Ken first was shot in season six, there were theories on Reddit and in other media outlets about Ken being a symbol for the Vietnam War soldier. He gets shot; he's marginalized in some ways within the office; with the patch, some people thought he looked like Israeli minister of defense and Vietnam critic Moshe Dayan. Does any of that resonate with you?
I haven't really thought about it, to be honest with you. I haven't heard that. But sure. I can see how that could—huh. Yeah, sure. I don't know what I have to contribute. That's an interesting theory. Nobody ever said that [on the show].
That's the thing: when people watch the show, they're really looking at symbolism and analyzing it the way an English major might analyze a work of literature. But as the actors working on the show, I'm guessing you don't have a lot of time to think about what everything is symbolizing or not symbolizing. You're just trying to capture the emotional reality.
That's right. Yeah. But you're right, that's one of the things about this show that's so unique, that it is very much—to me, it feels like a novel. So I absolutely understand. It's so dense and there's so much [to it]. That's why I was saying [before], little things from season three or season four that maybe they're just moments, and four episodes later, will come back and pay off in a way that you have to really pay attention. It could be something like a symbol or a theme or a metaphor for something bigger. And it's just—it's so layered with that. But as an actor, you're right, it's much more simple. For me, it was, "Okay we're hunting. What are we hunting?" And then I got shot and I fall down. It's much more simple.
You were shooting the last episodes a year ago or so. Do you remember how you felt when you wrapped? Was it emotional?
It was emotional. And it was surreal. It was quite honestly, way more emotional, for the final shot of the whole series. To be honest, I don't remember what that was, right off the top of my head. But that was more emotional than whatever my last shot was. Everybody had a last shot. That felt surreal. Both were surreal, but that one [the final shot] was more like a funeral.
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